|  Author | Topic: Champions Online (Read 1,404 times) |
RavingArmy
Moderator
member is offline
![[avatar]](http://s1.images.proboards.com/avatars/boyandpc.gif)
Joined: Aug 2006
Gender: Male 
Posts: 166
Karma: 6 |  | Champions Online
« Thread Started on Feb 21, 2008, 2:32pm » | |
So, I read in the News section this morning that Cryptic Studios is working on releasing *gasp* another superhero-themed MMO. Champions Online will be this great legendary thing with tons of customization and plenty of villain thwarting, hero stomping, city saving, world destroying, truth-justice-and-the-superhero-way action for all concerned.
All of this sounds good except for one niggling little problem: THIS IS CRYPTIC STUDIOS WE'RE TALKING ABOUT HERE!
Lest we forget, this is the same company who produced City of Heroes. Produced, sent out into the world, and then promptly lured into a dark alley, beating it to within an inch of its life with nerf bats, then somehow managed to convince the poor traumatized thing that it was actually two separate yet equally "powerful" entities, one was City of Heroes, the other City of Villains. The single constantly fun part of CoX, as it came to be known, was creating new characters and pimping out the costumes. The missions were repetitive, the mission MAPS were repetitive, and the only answer Cryptic ever seemed to have whenever game balance issues came up was to nerf everything rather than try and strike a genuine balance. Seriously. If you want to be an object of pity in CoX, go roll up an Assault Rifle Blaster-type toon of any combination and watch the "I'm sorry" messages roll in.
What's worse is that their entire implementation of Enhancements (the only real loot you got from mowing down hordes of similarly generic thugs, mugs, lugs, stooges, cultists, mutants, freaks, and aliens until about a year or so ago) was wildly unbalanced for much of the game's existence. Basically, you would load up your powers exclusively with damage boosting Enhancements (for the combat type stuff) or Endurance (CoX form of mana) performance Enhancements. Screw things like accuracy, lengthened status effects or buff/debuff boosters. End result: you weren't necessarily very accurate, but you hit like a Mack truck. Maybe. The howls of protest when CoX added the "Enhancement Diversification" element to the game would have scared wolves to death. Now, you had to take into account things like accuracy and lengthened status effects. You could still have two or three slots used for damage Enhancements, but you had a case of diminishing returns. However, at the same time, Cryptic hauled out the nerf bats again and clobbered the thousands of tights-wearing toons with more reductions in strength and durability. By this point, none of the heroes in CoX would be considered worthy to be Aquaman's personal doormat, and none of the villains seem capable of anything more malevolent than holding a Girl Scout's teddy bear hostage for a box of Thin Mints.
Yes, CoX had a neat idea when they came out with Inventions, basically Enhancements that you got from salvage and recipes, which were introduced at around the same time, but they came out too late to do any good. Moreover, CoX shot themselves in the foot with charging rent (using Fame or Infamy, CoX currency) for supergroups (CoX equivalent of guilds) who had built up a secret base (guild hall). And the missions are still repetitive as hell.
Now, one could argue that's very much the case with a lot of MMOs. Escort missions, FedEx missions, patrols, assassinations, those seem to be the basic scenarios any sort of MMO. The repeatable quests in WoW (Donation of Wool, Donation of Silk, Donation of Mageweave, et al, ad nauseum) or the story missions in Guild Wars. I would counter that both of those two worthies, as well as EVE Online, are far more sparing of the nerf bat than Cryptic has been, and they're far more generous about actually improving powers and abilities instead of across-the-board nerfs which piss everybody off. I would also point out the example of Guild Wars and how they handle guild halls. Once you've got it, you've got it. It's an investment in the world. EVE Online follows the rent model, but given that the assumption is you're going to be making stupid amounts of credits with all your corporation mates, it's perhaps more forgiveable.
And this is all before taking into account the Champions/HERO RPG system.
For those of you who don't visit the game stores, or the game/hobby/RPG section of your local bookstores, the HERO System is one that has been around for quite a while, and the basic rulebook is the sort of thing you would expect to stop .50 BMG rounds from a thousand yards out. It's physically very thick, and the rules are exceedingly dense. And those are just the BASIC rules, the core rulebook that you need to play anything derived from it. The additional books and what not usually aren't much thicker than what you'd expect from a D&D supplement or a GURPS worldbook, but there's still a lot of heavy duty material in them. And, dense or not, you can customize the living hell out of a character in the HERO System.
There seems to be some confusing elements regarding what Cryptic has done. According to HERO Games, Cryptic bought the intellectual property rights to the Champions/Dark Champions universe from HERO Games, then licensed the pen-and-paper production rights back to HERO Games. Cryptic and HERO Games are indicating that the HERO System rules will not actually be employed, though a dev blog indicates that they will be a sort of guideline. So right there, I'm having to wonder how the hell you have the sort of massive customization Cryptic is promising without actually infringing on the HERO System rules that they haven't actually licensed. It could be a cool result, like the SPECIAL System that was employed in Fallout. It could be an utter atrocity like the half-assed attempt to convert the Storyteller System for Vampire: The Masquerade - Redemption.
Another strong concern I have is whether or not Cryptic can deliver on the promise of a genuinely dynamic world. They didn't do so hot with CoX, despite all the neat seasonal events they cooked up and the "issue" expansions which added new content with a faceful of nerf bat each time. Can they give us something better than storyline arcs which are so ridiculously repetitive that we stop actually playing and just sorta go through the motions? Can they create the sense of "I am a superhero/supervillain and I can start some serious next-level shit with the first punk to look at me cross-eyed!" which was absent from CoX from the very start? And, the really cute trick, can they give us as players the sense of dwindling time which comes with superheroes who age? For anybody who's read Frank Miller's The Dark Knight Returns, you know what I'm talking about.
I am deeply skeptical about all of this. Cryptic will have to make Champions Online the sort of game that CoX should have been right out of the gate. They will need to learn and employ genuine game balancing, not just indiscriminate nerfing. They have to give us a world that players will have a genuine presence within and impact upon. Otherwise, it's just going to be more of the same, and gamers will be singing "We don't need another superhero."
|
We're not outnumbered! We're in the middle of a target rich environment! |
|
MrNash
Administrator
Crown Prince of the Potato People
member is offline
![[avatar]](http://i214.photobucket.com/albums/cc284/saburonoseigi/Rick-Hunter.jpg)
![[homepage]](http://s1.images.proboards.com/buttons/www_sm.gif)
Joined: Oct 2005
Gender: Male
Posts: 218
Karma: 32 | | Re: Champions Online
« Reply #1 on Feb 21, 2008, 5:29pm » | |
I never got around to CoX, mostly because it seemed to be getting a resounding chorus of "meh" in terms of public opinion. I'll give Cryptic the benefit of the doubt for now, but if they blow this one, they could find themselves relegated to good ship Why Bother just like SOE, without even being able to say, "At least we invented Everquest."
| |
|
dtmathers
Moderator
member is offline
![[avatar]](http://i52.photobucket.com/albums/g25/DemaskAvatars/Bowser.jpg)
Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 76
Karma: 13 | | Re: Champions Online
« Reply #2 on Feb 22, 2008, 5:42pm » | |
I'll just skip over the main points about CoX since that's not really the topic and I disagree with much of what you said and dont' want to derail this.
As for Cryptic making Champions Online . . .
When MUO was canceled Cryptic kept the majority of the work they'd done on it. This is what is being used as the base for Champions. So basically, its a game called 'Champions Online' but it will NOT use the HERO system, which is, well . . . pretty much the biggest component of Champions. The setting itself is actually really generic.
RavingArmy is right - the HERO book is huge; beyond huge, even. There are so many problems with the entire concept of making it into an MMO that its hard to know where to start. Even if they DID implement the entire HERO system its not a system that is accessible to most people. You can't even play the PnP game without looking up your own powers a couple times per game, let alone those of your friends and any enemies you encounter. So the idea of putting a system that crunchy into MMO form is pretty laughable. If they do? I wouldn't be likely to play it for very long, and neither will most others I wager, just because it would be too complex. There's no way to streamline a system that clunky and keep it genuine. If they don't implement it? The Champions fans who are salivating over this game will be mighty pissed.
As to the promise of a genuinely dynamic world that is affected by its players . . . don't count on it. This is an MMO. I have never seen an MMO that had its players have a genuine affect on the world in any serious way.
They do offer a few things that I'd like to see done in MMOs (such as power customization) but the guy heading up the team at Cryptic - Jack 'Statesman' Emmert - is the same bloke that said it wasn't even possible to do that in City of Heroes. I understand that this was likely a programming limitation, but still . . . even as a big City Of Heroes fan I have no faith at all in Cryptic as a developer.
|
====
One must think like a hero to act like a merely decent human being. |
|
RavingArmy
Moderator
member is offline
Joined: Aug 2006
Gender: Male
Posts: 166
Karma: 6 | | Open Beta: The First (Real) Day
« Reply #3 on Aug 19, 2009, 4:41pm » | |
Monday was supposed to be momentous for those who'd been waiting with bated breath for Champions Online to come out and give folks a sneak peek. Well, it was momentous, if only because nobody actually got to play the damn thing.
When things go wrong on an MMO launch, they're usually once you've gotten past the login screen and are actually in the game environment. This launch was marred by the fact the game didn't really launch. Apparently, Cryptic gave FilePlanet a copy of the beta client that had a strange bug involving files being sent to the wrong subdirectories, which in turn caused all manner of problems when Cryptic decided to push out a new patch for the first day of open beta. Moreover, the term "open beta" seems to have undergone near-Clintonesque word twisting. 50,000 beta keys were allowed, which isn't exactly what you'd call open in the strictest sense of the word. The folks at Cryptic apparently believed a considerably smaller number of beta keys would be redeemed. More than one angry forum poster called shenanigans on the excuse "we didn't think it'd be this popular." More than a few angry posters brought out the term "flagshipped," which couldn't have gone over well with former Flagship Studios founder Bill Roper, now currently working at Cryptic.
For all practical purposes, Tuesday was the first real day of open beta. Since there is no NDA in effect for this period, I can report on what I've seen so far. And so far, I'm rather liking the game. I'm still perturbed by the seeming lack of foresight, surprise technical glitches which apparently had appeared once already in closed beta, and the communications so murky they'd put Loch Ness on a foggy night to shame. But once everything did get installed and patched, I'm finding this may well be a worthwhile enterprise.
The character creation section, much like City of Heroes/Villains, is an embarrassment of riches. Doubtlessly, some people will have more fun futzing around with building toons than playing the game. For those that do decide to take their new toys out to play, you'll find an experience that vaguely reminds you of City of Heroes/Villains, but goes further and manages to be more dynamic than it's older cousin.
One of the big differences I'm finding between Champions and COx is in combat. In the latter title, combat was ridiculously boring. Once you got past the special effects, it became a matter watching your cooldowns and popping endurance replenishments at the right times. Champions takes a different approach, in that every class has it's own basic attack which generates energy instead of burning it up. Moreover, several attacks have different effects based on whether you just hit the key for it or hold it down to charge up/sustain the attack. Although I'm still in the single digits on my toons, the mechanic is repeated throughout the game.
The crafting mechanic in Champions looks to be interesting. Characters do get drops, much like other MMOs, which add to their stats and come in varying colors to denote rarity. The drops do not change the appearance of your character, only the stats, which is just as well. It's possible to mix and match drops of the three different types (Arms, Science, and Mysticism), though your crafting limits you to one of the three types, and one specialization within each type. Ideally, you'd want to specialize based on your character class (referred to in the game as "frameworks").
However, it should be pointed out that you can do some serious mixing and matching between power sets. Want to give that flame-flinging sorceress some mad kung fu skills? You can do that! The cyborg getting a psychic blast? You can do that! The honorable samurai warrior pulling out a pair of pistols and busting a cap? You can do that! Granted, there are limits to the sorts of mix and match you can pull off, but the opportunities are absolutely limitless.
I'm curious to see what happens next.
|
We're not outnumbered! We're in the middle of a target rich environment! |
|
RavingArmy
Moderator
member is offline
Joined: Aug 2006
Gender: Male
Posts: 166
Karma: 6 | | Two Weeks In...
« Reply #4 on Sept 16, 2009, 2:57pm » | |
After two weeks or so of playing Champions Online in its "final" form, many things have happened, some good, some not so good.
On the upside, I'm finding out that while some frameworks are very much the archetypal "blaster," I'm also beginning to find out some of the neat stuff tucked inside the seemingly simple mechanics. A Munitions blaster is very much a "kill'em all!" sort of experience when played straight, but add in other goodies like maybe a few Martial Arts powers and you suddenly have somebody who can not only blow away the enemy at range and in job lots, but you also have a fairly decent skill set to survive the inevitable beatdown when the survivors of your first wave rush you and hit back. Meanwhile, an Archery blaster gets some very interesting single target holds and crowd control-type effects that really cuts down on the amount of retaliation you take. It's a bit more subtle, but it's seemingly more effective for me. And those are just two of the sorts of toons I've rolled up in the last two weeks.
On the downside, technical issues seem to be devolving into a "whack-a-mole" sort of situation. Every patch Cryptic applies seems to break something else. One recent patch seemingly managed to kill the ability to hit the login server. I know this is a new game and all, but it's not encouraging.
The devs recently held a chat session on the 10th, and I'm still going through it. Cryptic seems to be owning up to shortcomings in the game like the money/drop issues, promising to loosen the pursestrings a little bit to help ease the pain of having too little cash for buying goodies. A new Celestial powerset is slated to be coming out at the same time as the game's first big seasonal event, a (probably) Halloween themed event known as "Blood Moon" There's also the potential for another new powerset, derivative of the game's current Single Blade powerset that will focus on two handed weapons. One wonders if they're going to be retouching the Single Blade powers to adopt a "sword-and-board" approach or if that will be another derivative set entirely.
So far, two weeks in, there's still a sense of the kinks getting worked out, but the overall experience remains favorable.
|
We're not outnumbered! We're in the middle of a target rich environment! |
|
agsahal
member is offline
Joined: Nov 2009
Gender: Female 
Posts: 1
Karma: 0 | | Re: Champions Online
« Reply #5 on Nov 23, 2009, 2:57am » | |
Champions Online is my favorite one to play games, very nice for this post.
| |
| |
|
![[Home]](http://s1.images.proboards.com/menu/home.gif)
![[Help]](http://s1.images.proboards.com/menu/help.gif)
![[Search]](http://s1.images.proboards.com/menu/search.gif)
![[Login]](http://s1.images.proboards.com/menu/login.gif)
![[Register]](http://s1.images.proboards.com/menu/register.gif)
![[Search This Thread]](http://s1.images.proboards.com/search2.gif)
![[Send Topic To Friend]](http://s1.images.proboards.com/buttons/sendtopic.gif)
![[Print]](http://s1.images.proboards.com/buttons/print.gif)
Logged